| |
WELCOME TO DISCUSSION FORUM OF THE INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA OF UNIFORM INSIGNIA AROUND THE WORLD
 WJ
Guest
Post subject: Ranks for the Gestapo.
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:27 pm
Just a question: What sort of rank system does the Gestapo use? Does it use the police-type ranks, or does it use the ranks used in the Army, Luftwaffe, etc?
Thanks,
WJTW
Back to top
MODERATOR
Posts: 1752
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Location: West Islip,New York,United States
Medals: None
COMMUNICANT
Posts: 155
Joined: 06 Dec 2002
Location: Paris, France
Medals: None
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:15 pm
Hi !
Weeellll !! The "Gestapo" is a phantasm of the occupied countries ( excluding those annexed to the Reich ) or movies, the reason is... Because it didn't operate outside the German Frontiers. The "Korrekt" organisation is the "Sicheheitsdienst" ( "SD" ). They wore green/ grey uniforms ( they are often differences in the shade ), open collar, with usual "SS" rank insignia. The main difference is that the right collar patch is left black ( instead of bearing the runic "SS" ) up to the rank of "Standartenführer" (roughly equivalent to colonel ), from which ranks, this one included, are - as in the other "SS" components - marked on both patches.
If someone could affirm or infirm this ?
Olivier
  
Back to top
COMMUNICANT
Posts: 155
Joined: 06 Dec 2002
Location: Paris, France
Medals: None
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:15 pm
Hi !
Weeellll !! The "Gestapo" is a phantasm of the occupied countries ( excluding those annexed to the Reich ) or movies, the reason is... Because it didn't operate outside the German Frontiers. The "Korrekt" organisation is the "Sicheheitsdienst" ( "SD" ). They wore green/ grey uniforms ( they are often differences in the shade ), open collar, with usual "SS" rank insignia. The main difference is that the right collar patch is left black ( instead of bearing the runic "SS" ) up to the rank of "Standartenführer" (roughly equivalent to colonel ), from which ranks, this one included, are - as in the other "SS" components - marked on both patches.
If someone could affirm or infirm this ?
Olivier
Back to top
CORRESPONDENT
Posts: 180
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Location: Kenilworth, England
Medals: None
CORRESPONDENT
Posts: 225
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Medals: None
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:56 pm
To answer the first question about what rank structure the Gestapo (Geheimestaatspolizei/Secret State Police) had the answer is that they had SS rank & police rank both (as did many SS officers). The reason for this was simple, the SS (and the SD) technically had no authority to make arrests or detain “civilians”. So the Gestapo (and as well many of the SD) had both military & civil authority.
In the highly complex world of the German Military & Security Services (this is very simplified but still not as dizzying as the new plethora US law enforcement agencies).
Under Hitler
Himmler as Reichsführer SS (Schutzstaffel/Protection squad) was also Head of German Police
Under him was the Chef der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD/Head of the Security Police and the SD:
who also headed the office of the RSHA (Reichssicherheits-Hauptamt) generally translated as the Reich Security Main Office.
The SD (Sicherheitsdienst/Security Service) had responsibility for both internal and external intelligence & security but had no powers of arrest by itself proper. These were provided by the Sicherheitspolizei/security police. The main unit of the Sicherheitspolizei (Security Police) was the the Gestapo (Geheimestaatspolizei/Secret State Police) and a Gestapo Officer would generally hold a SS & a Police commission generally in the same rank grade
So a “Major” in the Gestapo the rank would hold the rank of SS-Sturmbannführer and Major der Polizei. Enlisted grades held only SS rank.
A “Major” in the SS would not have the police rank unless in Gestapo or possibly the SD
A “Major: in the Kripo (Kriminalpolizei) would not have any “military rank” but after 43 wore SS uniforms & rank insignia.
If you look under the Third Reich Section of Rank Insignia.Info http://www.rankinsignia.info/browse.php?kontinent=Europa&stat=Germany%20-%20Third%20Reich
And look at the SD - SS-Sicherheitsdienst - Security Services & the Schutzpolizei des Reiches. Sections you will be able to get a better understanding.
When wearing uniforms, the Gestapo wore SS / SD uniforms and insignia. In general they like many modern military investigative services they wore no uniform and used no rank unless needed.
The other main police forces include:
The ORPO (Ordnungspolizei/order police). The reorganized german police, in which the the Schutzpolizei/uniformed police and the Gendarmerie/rural police were merged (traffic, patrol, etc)
The KRIPO (Kriminalpolizei/Crimminal Police) was the German criminal police. These were the investigative police (like the CID in many commonwealth countries- detective investigation) - KRIPO was under the control of RSHA as well.
The main difference between these forces and the Gestapo was that the Gestapo investigated only political crimes (but basically anyone one it wanted to …).
And to the second point:
Olivier is correct that the SD operated in occupied territories mostly, and that the Gestapo operated in German territory, probably a moot point
This site http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/pages/t055/t05572.html , the Simon Wiesenthal organization gives a good understanding of some of the units and how they fit in.
_________________
Robb Mavins, MBA,
former Navy, Navigator, Clearance Diver
My interests are any Navy, Marine or Auxiliary Sea Service rank insignia or history.
Slightly anal retentive but at least I have a sense of humour about it
Back to top
CORRESPONDENT
Posts: 225
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Medals: None
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:00 pm
James wrote:
The Gestapo was a state organisation (which predated the Third Reich) and used police detective (Kripo) ranks. However, after the Nazis gained power all Gestapo men also became members of the SD, the Nazi Party security service, which was part of the SS. This means that all Gestapo men in the Third Reich had two ranks: a police rank and an SS rank. If they wore uniform, it would be the SS uniform with the SD patch on the sleeve.
Hi James, I posted my reply before seeing yours, very spot on although of course the KRIPO rank structure went through several changes as well
_________________
Robb Mavins, MBA,
former Navy, Navigator, Clearance Diver
My interests are any Navy, Marine or Auxiliary Sea Service rank insignia or history.
Slightly anal retentive but at least I have a sense of humour about it
Back to top
CORRESPONDENT
Posts: 180
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Location: Kenilworth, England
Medals: None
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:20 pm
Robb Mavins wrote:
The SD (Sicherheitsdienst/Security Service) had responsibility for both internal and external intelligence & security but had no powers of arrest by itself proper. These were provided by the Sicherheitspolizei/security police. The main unit of the Sicherheitspolizei (Security Police) was the the Gestapo (Geheimestaatspolizei/Secret State Police) and a Gestapo Officer would generally hold a SS & a Police commission generally in the same rank grade
So a “Major” in the Gestapo the rank would hold the rank of SS-Sturmbannführer and Major der Polizei. Enlisted grades held only SS rank.
A “Major” in the SS would not have the police rank unless in Gestapo or possibly the SD
A “Major: in the Kripo (Kriminalpolizei) would not have any “military rank” but after 43 wore SS uniforms & rank insignia.
Actually, army-style ranks were only used by the uniformed police. The plain-clothes Kripo and Gestapo (together known as the Sipo - Sicherheitspolizei) used a completely different rank system. A similar (but not identical) rank system is still used by German police forces today:
http://www.rankinsignia.info/show.php?podkategorie=BGS-Bundesgrenzschutz%20-%20Federal%20Police%20Force&stat=Germany&id=654
These include such ranks such as Polizeikommissar and Polizeirat.
Back to top
CORRESPONDENT
Posts: 225
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Medals: None
COMMUNICANT
Posts: 144
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Czech Republic
Medals: None
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:42 pm
RANKS OF SICHERHEITSPOLIZEI
- GESTAPO ( Geheime Staatspolizei ) and KRIPO (Kriminalpolizei )
Vollzugspolizei
( Executive Branch )
Corresponding ranks at SD ( Sicherheitsdienst )
Angesteller = SS-Scharführer, SS-Unterscharführer
Kriminalassistent = SS-Oberscharführer
Oberkriminalassistent = SS-Hauptscharführer
Kriminalsekretär = SS-Untersturmführer
Oberkriminalsekretär = SS-Untersturmführer
Kriminalinspektor = SS-Obersturmführer
Kriminalkommissar = SS-Obersturmführer
Kriminalrat = SS-Hauptsturmführer
Kriminaldirektor = SS-Sturmbannführer
Regierungs-und Kriminalrat = SS-Sturmbannführer
Oberregierungs-und Kriminalrat = SS-Obersturmbannführer
Regierungs-und Kriminaldirektor = SS-Standartenführer
Reichskriminaldirector = SS-Standartenführer, SS-Oberführer
Verwaltungspolizei
( Administration Service and Police Prison Guard )
Corresponding ranks at SD ( Sicherheitsdienst )
Amtsgehilfe = SS-Unterscharführer
Blockwart = SS-Scharführer
Obergefägniswachtmeister, Polizeasistent = SS-Oberscharführer
Hauptgefägniswachtmeister = SS-Hauptscharführer
Polizeisekretär = SS-Untersturmführer
Oberpolizeisekretär = SS-Untersturmführer
Polizeiinspektor = SS-Obersturmführer
Oberpolizeiinspektor = SS-Hauptsturmführer
Polizeirat = SS-Sturmbannführer
_________________
Pavel SIMANDL
CZECH REPUBLIC
Back to top
StevenWang
Guest
Post subject:
Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 12:33 pm
不是很好，不喜欢……
Back to top
ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 341
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Location: Warsaw Poland
Medals: None
COMMUNICANT
Posts: 144
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Czech Republic
Medals: None
Post subject: GESTAPO - Ranks picture ( SD, GESTAPO, KRIPO, WOMAN )
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:54 pm
GESTAPO - Ranks picture ( SD, GESTAPO, KRIPO, WOMAN,... )
see:
http://simex.xf.cz/
RANKS OF GESTAPO and KRIPO (SICHERHEITSPOLIZEI )
- GESTAPO ( Geheime Staatspolizei, Secret State Police )
Full title, e.g.: SS-Sturmbannführer und Kriminaldirektor ( Karl Neumann )
( just as KRIPO, Kriminalpolizei, Criminal police )
_________________
Pavel SIMANDL
CZECH REPUBLIC
Last edited by Pavel Simandl on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
COMMUNICANT
Posts: 144
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Czech Republic
Medals: None
Post subject: GESTAPO - Ranks picture ( SD, GESTAPO, KRIPO, WOMAN )
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:55 pm
GESTAPO - Ranks picture ( SD, GESTAPO, KRIPO, WOMAN,... )
see:
http://simex.xf.cz/
RANKS OF GESTAPO and KRIPO (SICHERHEITSPOLIZEI )
- GESTAPO ( Geheime Staatspolizei, Secret State Police )
Full title, e.g.: SS-Sturmbannführer und Kriminaldirektor ( Karl Neumann )
( just as KRIPO, Kriminalpolizei, Criminal police )
_________________
Pavel SIMANDL
CZECH REPUBLIC
Last edited by Pavel Simandl on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
COMMUNICANT
Posts: 144
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Czech Republic
Medals: None
Post subject: GESTAPO - Ranks picture ( SD, GESTAPO, KRIPO, WOMAN )
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:00 pm
GESTAPO - Ranks picture ( SD, GESTAPO, KRIPO, WOMAN,... )
RANKS OF GESTAPO and KRIPO (SICHERHEITSPOLIZEI )
- GESTAPO ( Geheime Staatspolizei, Secret State Police )
Full title, e.g.: SS-Sturmbannführer und Kriminaldirektor ( Karl Neumann )
( just as KRIPO, Kriminalpolizei, Criminal police )
see:
_________________
Pavel SIMANDL
CZECH REPUBLIC
Last edited by Pavel Simandl on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Posts: 7
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Latvia
Medals: None
|
|
